As of last night, November 4, 2008, the proposition to ban gay marriages in the state of California has almost have 98% of passing, so what does that mean for us?
Currently, under the California Constitution, same-sex marriage is protected under the law, which passed through the California Supreme Court in May of 2008. If Proposition 8 passes, the constitution will be altered to “only marriage between a man and woman will be considered valid or recognized in California” (wikipedia). Recognition is defined as “identification of a thing or person from previous encounters or knowledge.” A gay couple will no longer be IDENTIFIED, RECOGNIZED; their love not acknowledged. There’s so much sadness in this, because this proposition allows people to merely erase that little stint of time when marriage for everyone was legal. This proposition means that in the future, equality is jeopardized. A gay couple can never marry, can never create that special union with the one they choose to marry.
Slogans like “save marriage” wreak hypocrisy so severely. In the state of California, divorce rates are so high, making it a very high possibility in every home. I don’t believe that homosexuals have anything to do with the divorce rate. Rather than focus on gay couples marrying, why don’t we first focus on fixing the marriages between man and woman? If anything, ban divorces. I’m sure that will bring down the divorce rate.
I apologize for maybe seeming irrational or bias. I admit, I am bias. I am bias towards the love that one human being can feel for another human being. I see no difference in sex, color, and nationality, whatever it may be!
If you’re arguing from a religious point of view, please regard this: does God want you to force some one into loving Him? What you are essentially doing is trying to create a kingdom without a king. You can no more make a person believe in the truth of the Bible than to make them believe in God. A friend of mine wrote, “A vote for “yes”, if voted on Christian grounds, is a vote that betrays God, and shows that your faith has been deeply corrupted. And I am absolutely serious about that. It betrays God because it betrays the sacrificial logic behind the cross. It says, “I know that Jesus sacrificed himself to show us the truth, but I will not sacrifice myself to show others the truth.” In that sense it is much like the wicked servant who won’t forgive his servant’s debt even though his master had already forgiven his. In Romans 2 Paul asks, “why don’t you extend grace to these other sinners? Or do you hold contempt for God’s grace?” The gospel of grace was preached to us through grace. To deny this grace is to deny the gospel. If your vote is yes, be prepared to be judged as you are judging.” I completely agree with him. God has extended his grace upon us. Please show yours.
Thanks everyone.
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8 comments:
Trang Bui,
Wow! You are very passionate about your argument, i like that! I am too against prop 8 and it is unfortunate that it has passed. The other day I was driving down 405 and saw kids waving on the overpass with a huge sign saying No on Prop 8, i started honking my horn. I believe marriage between a man and women is based on love and solely love. Not the bible, not any other influences, but just love. If two people love each other, no matter their sex, they should have the right of union, no questions asked. I also agree with you that divorce rates are so high. Much of that is due to financial distress and security. People are now afraid to even get into marriage just because there is no hope of it lasting. I am Catholic, but a very liberal one and passionately against Prop 8. I understand how people constantly refer to the bible and it's emphasis on marriage being between a man and women only. But at the same time I think preaching religion is not far from brainwashing and religion is something that you find personally. Nobody can enforce religion upon an individual, it is something that comes through experience, knowledge, and sometimes divine intervention. But I'm getting off topic. Anyways, I totally agree with what your saying. Great essay!
Concerning the future, the passing of proposition 8 is very relevant because it will change the makeup of California, one of the most liberal states in the country. A lot of other propositions also passed across the country that greatly limited the rights that gays possess. I hope that in the near future that the Supreme Court will eventually step in (hopefully one of the old conservative justices will step down and Obama can appoint a justice of his choosing) and declare that discrimination based on sexual preference is unconstitutional. Or, as the current generation grows older and moves into middle-age and more politically savy, these anti-gay marriage propositions will be overturned as the current generation of voters is highly liberal.
With regards to the religious argumentation for not allowing homosexual marriage, I think it's interesting that Christianity didn't even recognize marriage as a sacrament until about 1000 years ago, and in ancient Greece, marriage was an announcement rather than a pronouncement. People have forgotten this. Marriage is between two people, and it is up to them whether or not they are married. But in contemporary society, i think it's almost foolish that a couple would need the "approval" of a third party to declare them married.
I find it ironic how we just elected an African American President, which ushers in a theme of equality, but at the same time, Proposition 8 was passed which goes against equality. Quite honesty I don’t really like to talk about politics, but this is something that I felt was a bit irrational. I mean what harm does it do to us (straight people) if prop 8 was voted no? It doesn’t harm us, so we should just let gays get married. It was sad how the supporters for prop 8 used children as an excuse since they said if prop 8 was voted no, gay marriages would be taught in schools. In my personal experience, schools never taught us anything about marriage in general. Besides, it’s not like kids would not know what gays are eventually. What’s wrong with being married to the one that you love? Divorce rate is high enough, so who are we to decide for homosexuals what they should do. Here we have people that honestly and truly love each other, and yet the voters are keeping them apart. As it was mentioned almost 98% of California voted yes. Well of course it’s biased; we place a minority proposition among the majority. In the future, what would our kids say about our actions? We are the devils within ourselves. This is significant to note since if the constitution does not apply here about gay marriage, what is stopping the majority to vote on other issues that would further discrimination.
I agree with you all.
It's deeply saddening that Prop 8 passed, but to tell you the truth, I was not surprised. Discrimination is alive and well in this country. The passing of prop 8 is just a prime example. It's like taking a step backward in order to safeguard the practice of discrimination. America is, at its core, homophobic. I don't think that's ever going to change.
People hide behind religion to mask their own hate. It's cowardly but it works. It makes them sleep better at night.
Not everyone uses religion as an excuse. I asked my uncle who he voted for. He said McCain. I asked him about Prop 8. He voted yes. I was completely shocked. He's the most easy going, laid back, nicest guy you'll meet--and he's Buddhist. He's not that uptight, belligerent person most of us think of when we think of a pro-8 voter. I just don't understand. Maybe there is not a single answer why people are adamant about discriminating against gays.
For whatever reason, people are so uncomfortable with the idea of "allowing" gays to share the same privilege as them that they are willing to override ideals of equality and justice and liberty. It boggles my mind.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I know that there are good people, like my uncle, who voted yes on 8.
I just don't know why good people who happen to be gay can not be treated as equal Americans. I hope that we will someday come to the point where there is no irony in the words "equal American". I don't see it happening any time soon and it breaks my heart.
I believe gay marriage is detrimental and a threat to society and here are my reasons for this belief: 1) Is marriage not a sacred union derived from religion? Homosexuality is a sin according to religion so is it not hypocritical to want a religious ceremony to recognize their love. 2) Homosexuality is a personal preference among a "minority" of the population. If it were the preference of the majority then it would be hard to deny. It is unfair to inflict legislation that goes against the grain per se. That is how democracy works. 3) Wouldn't you feel bad for children who get adopted or artificially inseminated into a gay family since they would experience terrible alienation from society and possibly develop behavior disorders? The situation is analogous to children raised by single mothers/fathers. Many of these children experience difficulties stemming from lack of a mother/father figure. 4) Immigrants could use it as a loophole to gain permanent residency. It may be easier for two people of the same sex to scheme a fake marriage.
Also, get your facts straight 98% did not vote in favor of prop 8. That would be astounding. As of Nov. 5, with 95% of the precincts counted, only 52% voted in favor! I agree with Jonathon about how foolish it is to need approval from the "state" to declare their love even for straight couples with the crazy high divorce rates.
Small steps, guys! I too am sad that Prop Eight passed but I am still optimistic for the future. History has shown that our country is resistant to change at first, but tends to rule on the side of justice in the end. We as a country have struggled to allow rights for different minority groups such as women, African Americans, and immigrants, however I believe things have gotten better for these minority groups over time. It will be a similar struggle for homosexual couples. I think people need to remember that homosexuality is biological, not a personal choice. We are too great a country to allow the denial of basic human rights to any of our citizens.
Hey Trang,
I am also a prop 8 hater!! I love that you are so against it too! I am with you about the religion thing, if people want to say that God would not allow this it is sooo false. I would think that people who are religious would think that prop 8 was a bad thing because it is discriminating a creature that God has created. I do not believe that God would have created gays if he was going to treat gays differently than straights. This is religion showing hate against a group of individuals which im sure is against the bible. I also wanted to state some of the possible problems that prop 8 is causing. It is first causing segregation in our nation agian, which i thought we got rid of when we stopped discriminating against african americans. Also, it is either going to cause the gays that are married to spring into action to save their marriages that they have rightfully gained, or it is going to cause the people that did not have a chance to marry to fight for the same equality that the other gays did get to experience. I cannot wait to see the havoc that passing this proposition will bring to California in the future. I belive that passing this prop will cause drama and problems that i believe California now deserves. This is what all you Yessers wanted right?!!! What would straight people do if we took away their marital rights?!!
Jk, I think you make a lot of good points I didn't think about before. However, I would like to let you know my personal opinions about your opinions in the most respectful way. I am not trying to prove your opinions wrong or unjust, maybe rather getting things off my chest that are prompted by your remarks.
1) Marriage is not religious to all. To say that it is would be stereotyping. Marriage does not fit one definition and to narrowly define it would be by definition discrimination. Marriage to many means a civil union to declare commitment to each other, it can be spiritual and not religious. Believing in a God or many Gods or no God does not necessarily dictate how you feel about a person you want to spend the rest of your life with. Prop 8 does not say no to just religious unions, it says absolutely no to any union of two people and this is the part that is quite disturbing. More practically, unions recognized by the state allows necessary benefits such as health insurance, life insurance, etc and to deny those benefits to any citizen based on sexual orientation goes against the aspirations of the state to create a better "society". The state has a duty to serve the society as a whole; to base such decisions on personal religion, which is also a "personal choice", as you dubbed homosexuality - would be detrimental to social welfare and countless other areas.
2)Was it not single persons who stood up against the majority who changed our history, these people like: Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr, Cesar Chavez, Susan B. Anthony, and Abraham Lincoln who we now regard as heroes? To say that just because the majority is heterosexual does not mean that it's the right. Nor does it say that it is wrong. What I mean to point out is that it has been respected and is deemed the cultural norm. According to your argument you are saying that if a lot of people were gay, and you are not, you would give up your right - in fact you would not even be entitled to even having the idea of - having the same rights as the people around you. This kind of thinking was what swayed people to go and follow Hitler because everyone else was - we all must have blue eyes and blond hair, because...because why? Was this nation not founded on the grounds on the sanctity of these choices.
3) Comparing children that come from single parent homes to those of gay couples is not valid. Here's why. If you want to make that an argument, you must prove that A causes B. Does living with just one parent always make you have an especially difficult life? Does A co-vary with B. That is, if A does not happen B does not happen. Does having a mother and a father always mean you will be better off? Finally, you have to eliminate all alternative causes for what you say is causing difficult lives/alienation growing up. What other things affect this child besides if their parents were male or female or if they had just one parent around. Well there's a whole lot.
And aren't we not trying to go past that point where gender roles are not what define us and what we are capable of doing? What are we teaching our children when we restrict our ideals of what women must teach and men must teach?
Are you arguing that artificial insemination or adoption is the process that is bad? Because straight couples do this all the time. They must go through rigorous, year long, expensive processes to finally adopt a child. Their medical, family, social histories are scrutinized, they go through rounds of interviews etc. to finally be able to have their dreams realized: to be a parent to a child. A gay married couple would have to go through that too - and more.
They ask themselves what it would be like to raise a child in a largely homosexual world, how their child see things and questions that they will ask. I am sure they know that their child will need to be nurtured and cared for with even more special care, and if they don't, they sure aren't going to be sliding by the adoption agency.
To suggest that you are feeling bad for what the child might experience does not warrant denial of marriage between two loving gay people, who may or may not want to have children.
4)I'm not entirely sure about this one. Do you mean illegal immigrants and attempts to disappear into our crevices or immigrants? Well they can't get married because they must be legally recognized by the state and their identities are revealed and researched. And if you want to change your last name to your spouse's, they need several official documents including birth certificates, passports, etc. An illegal immigrant would not in a million years do be in favor of this.
And for the immigrants who want to establish lives in the United States. Why not? Why should this not be okay? Maybe I am naive (and don't know too much about how our government works entirely. But is there a law that say no to you and you and you and you, because you're foreign, or establish quotas based on your "Oriental" heritage. So 1920s.
And if you say that religion is what marriage stems from, those who are immigrants and of the Catholic or Christian faith will not be getting married "in the name of religion". This would be going against their religion, and didn't you say that civil unions of homosexuals goes against religion and it should not be allowed? Do you side with the immigrants who are not religious and want to scheme their way into permanent residency or those say they practice a religion but go blatantly plot against it? Categories of people are not so neat, and that's my point.
Categories divide people. They make barriers instead of break down walls that are vital to progress. Instead, is it too much to ask to sanctify those values we share and hope to spread like commitment, honor, and love?
Well I guess my question has already sadly been answered.
Thanks for reading, I know that was long.
Nadia
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